can't stay connected

[Unregistered]

I am connected to UAWIFI in the dorms and i have a good connection, but it seems that it keeps disconnecting every 10-20 minutes or so. Whats causing this? It automatically reconnects, but its getting annoying!

[yount]

What operating system are you running?

[Unregistered]

Windows XP pro!

[Unregistered]

Windows XP pro!

[yount]

It may be an issue with your wireless card itself... I would recommend that you come to our Walk-in days, starting Wednesday the 15th here in the ILC Underground. One of our tech leads can take a look at it for you and see what's happening. It is a first-come-first-serve basis, so there may be a wait if there are other students a head of you.

If you have any questions you can reach us at 626-TECH (626-8324)

[dja]

i don't think this is a problem with his/her system because i'm having the exact same problem with my wifi.

[picch]

i don't think this is a problem with his/her system because i'm having the exact same problem with my wifi.

It could be both actually. If both of your wireless cards are of the intel pro wireless series chances are it's a problem with the wireless card, we've been having trouble with them since day 1 of the wireless rollout.

However do keep in mind that the wireless rollout in all of the dorms was a massive summer long project that was just finished about a week ago, I'd be willing to bet that there is still some kinks that need to be worked out.

What dorm are you in by the way?

[dja]

i'm dan and i'm in gila hall room 146. the guy across the hall is having the same problem i am. its kind of annoying because we both have high end computers and the internet still cuts out every five or ten minutes. i'm not sure how many people are having the same issue but it seems to be fairly widespread. any suggestions?

[picch]

What wireless cards do you both have and have you tried the wireless in another location besides your dorm IE the ILC or the student union

[gka]

Does the problem outlined under the troubleshooting link on http://uawifi.arizona.edu apply to you? Try this: http://ccit.web.arizona.edu/index.php?id=2168

[Unregistered]

Your card may be going into power save mode to conserve your laptop battery. This link, http://ccit.web.arizona.edu/index.php?id=2168 , describes how to change the power save mode on a Dell, but the procedure is the same for any Windows laptop.

I personally experienced issues with Intel 3945 cards with the drivers Intel issues on 5/18 and 5/25. The behavior was that the data rate would drop from 54 to 48 to 36, etc. until it disconnected and then the card reconnected. I'm currently using a driver Dell certified and have had no problems since.

We are troubleshooting client issues either at the OSCR Help Desk or at the UITS Help Desk in building 73. Please come in and we'll see if we can help.

Tom Magrini
Assistant Director, UITS Network Services

[dparm]

I had better luck using the [more frequently updated] generic Intel wireless drivers. They seem to be updated once or twice a month, and reliability on UAWiFi increased each time.

It also has to do with each manufacturer's particular implementation of a card. Some have better antenna setups than others.

Tom does present a good point -- power save modes often decrease transmit power which can result in flakey performance. I know that in Vista, the wireless card power save modes cause performance to totally bottom out for only a few extra minutes of battery life.

[picch]

Your card may be going into power save mode to conserve your laptop battery. This link, http://ccit.web.arizona.edu/index.php?id=2168 , describes how to change the power save mode on a Dell, but the procedure is the same for any Windows laptop.

I personally experienced issues with Intel 3945 cards with the drivers Intel issues on 5/18 and 5/25. The behavior was that the data rate would drop from 54 to 48 to 36, etc. until it disconnected and then the card reconnected. I'm currently using a driver Dell certified and have had no problems since.

We are troubleshooting client issues either at the OSCR Help Desk or at the UITS Help Desk in building 73. Please come in and we'll see if we can help.

Tom Magrini
Assistant Director, UITS Network Services


Building 73 is the Computer Center on the southeast corner of Speedway and Mountain.

I've had the same luck Dan has, updating the Intel drivers has been a huge help. Also Chris found that disabling fast reconnect in vista helps as well.

[dja]

well my new dell xps1330 came in and it doesn't have that problem with the internet cutting out, so i suspect it does have to do with certain drivers or internet cards. most of my wing mates in gila are still having the problem though.

[Wildman]

What kind of WIFI network network was installed - CISCO?

[Wildman]

WiFi Products
Interference from 2.4 GHz Cordless Telephones



Symptom(s):
The interference can be experienced by connection disconnects, pauses or disruptions in data transmissions, or other erratic connection behaviors when the 2.4 GHz cordless telephone is powered on or in use.

Cause:
2.4 GHz cordless telephones operate at the same frequencies as 2.4 GHz 802.11b, 802.11g and 802.11n wireless LAN access points, network adapters, and other devices.

Solution:


Change the location of the Access Point and/or the base of the cordless phone.
Switch the channel on the Access Point. If that doesn't work, try another channel.
Note: Many 2.4 GHz cordless telephones operate with what is called frequency hopping technology. This technology utilizes the entire frequency range also used by 802.11b, 802.11g and 802.11n wireless devices. Thus changing the channel of the Access Point may not eliminate the interference problem.
Operate the phone with the antenna lowered, if that is an option.
If all else fails, use a phone that is NOT a 2.4 GHz phone.

This applies to: Intel® PRO/Wireless 2000 LAN Access Point
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2011 LAN Access Point
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2011 LAN PC Card
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2011B LAN Access Point
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2011B LAN CF Card
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2011B LAN PC Card
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2011B LAN PCI Adapter
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2011B LAN USB Device
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2100 Network Connection
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2100A Network Connection
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2200BG Network Connection
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2915ABG Network Connection
Intel® PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection
Intel® PRO/Wireless 5000 LAN Dual Access Point
Intel® Wireless WiFi Link 4965AGN

[picch]

What kind of WIFI network network was installed - CISCO?

Yes the wireless network is powered by cisco

[picch]

WiFi Products
Interference from 2.4 GHz Cordless Telephones



Symptom(s):
The interference can be experienced by connection disconnects, pauses or disruptions in data transmissions, or other erratic connection behaviors when the 2.4 GHz cordless telephone is powered on or in use.

Cause:
2.4 GHz cordless telephones operate at the same frequencies as 2.4 GHz 802.11b, 802.11g and 802.11n wireless LAN access points, network adapters, and other devices.

Solution:


Change the location of the Access Point and/or the base of the cordless phone.
Switch the channel on the Access Point. If that doesn't work, try another channel.
Note: Many 2.4 GHz cordless telephones operate with what is called frequency hopping technology. This technology utilizes the entire frequency range also used by 802.11b, 802.11g and 802.11n wireless devices. Thus changing the channel of the Access Point may not eliminate the interference problem.
Operate the phone with the antenna lowered, if that is an option.
If all else fails, use a phone that is NOT a 2.4 GHz phone.

This applies to: Intel® PRO/Wireless 2000 LAN Access Point
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2011 LAN Access Point
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2011 LAN PC Card
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2011B LAN Access Point
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2011B LAN CF Card
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2011B LAN PC Card
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2011B LAN PCI Adapter
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2011B LAN USB Device
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2100 Network Connection
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2100A Network Connection
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2200BG Network Connection
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2915ABG Network Connection
Intel® PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection
Intel® PRO/Wireless 5000 LAN Dual Access Point
Intel® Wireless WiFi Link 4965AGN

This is nothing new, wireless interference has been known about since people started using wireless products.

The 2.4ghz wireless spectrum is an extremely crowded wireless frequency because it's unlicensed

Here is a short list of what runs on that frequency:
Cell Phones
802.11B Wireless Networks
802.11G Wireless Networks
802.11N Wireless Networks
Microwaves
Wireless speakers
Bluetooth Wireless
Cordless Phones
& many more


Interference is everywhere, and no matter what wireless card you have, you are effected by it. Yes changing the channel does help, which is why UAWiFi runs on multiple channels depending on which APs you are next to.

The problem with Intel wireless cards is as follows:

UAWiFi is designed for you to be able to pick up your laptop, connect to UAWiFi and be able to move anywhere within the range of the wireless network at anytime without losing your connection. This is done by you "AP hopping" which means you jump from access point to access point as you move around. Intel cards have a real hard time doing this. The reason why your connection drops while you are stationary is because windows is constantly checking to see which access point is the best one for you to use and will often bounce you from one AP to another even if you haven't moved. This problem isn't hardware related but directly related to the drivers produced for the cards. Intel has been working very closely with the University as well as Cisco for the last year to constantly improve on their drivers to hopefully eventually fix the solution. So, that being said the reason why the problem seems so widespread is because most laptop manufactures push really hard the Intel Centrino line for their education line of laptops (which includes the Intel Core 2 Duo processor, as well as some sort of Intel wireless card).

[Wildman]

Many have pointed out that the Intel wireless cards are a problem. The CCIT website also points out that the Dell wireless cards are a problem. But the implied message is that it is the users' problem for using bad cards and not the University for designing a system that misbehaves with a large portion of the installed base of wireless cards. Can it be that the some aspects of the current UAWIFI are the problem?

Has the University advised its students and faculty that these cards are a problem? My point is simply this. It seems slightly suspicious that the Intel card problem does not seem to be to so widespread that commercial and government customers are noticing it. While there may be a user-level driver problem here, there must be something that the University can do on the wireless infrastructure end to start to remedy the problem. I do not know the models of your Cisco access points and have not researched it fully on the Cisco website but there are some basic things to look at: the firmware/software revisions on the access point devices, their location, their configurations and whether their number adequately addresses the required capacity, or whether a better model of AP would help.

The University needs to more aggressively this issue because many students, especially those in older residence halls, are suffering to the point that their academic performance may suffer. Many residence halls have their Ethernet ports in a corner so that the wiring logistics make it cumbersome or impossible to use and the data rate is only at 10mpbs! It seems that it would be a lot less expensive and more efficient to address this problem now than face a wired infrastructure upgrade. And advising students to replace their wireless cards, especially in laptops, seems an equally impracticable answer as well.

[picch]

Many have pointed out that the Intel wireless cards are a problem. The CCIT website also points out that the Dell wireless cards are a problem. But the implied message is that it is the users' problem for using bad cards and not the University for designing a system that misbehaves with a large portion of the installed base of wireless cards. Can it be that the some aspects of the current UAWIFI are the problem?

Has the University advised its students and faculty that these cards are a problem? My point is simply this. It seems slightly suspicious that the Intel card problem does not seem to be to so widespread that commercial and government customers are noticing it. While there may be a user-level driver problem here, there must be something that the University can do on the wireless infrastructure end to start to remedy the problem. I do not know the models of your Cisco access points and have not researched it fully on the Cisco website but there are some basic things to look at: the firmware/software revisions on the access point devices, their location, their configurations and whether their number adequately addresses the required capacity, or whether a better model of AP would help.

The University needs to more aggressively this issue because many students, especially those in older residence halls, are suffering to the point that their academic performance may suffer. Many residence halls have their Ethernet ports in a corner so that the wiring logistics make it cumbersome or impossible to use and the data rate is only at 10mpbs! It seems that it would be a lot less expensive and more efficient to address this problem now than face a wired infrastructure upgrade. And advising students to replace their wireless cards, especially in laptops, seems an equally impracticable answer as well.

I'm curious where CCIT advises people to replace their wireless cards?
Also, the wireless in the dorms is extremely new (within 3 weeks old). Students have managed to use the wired connections for years, just because the wireless is a little sketchy in the dorms doesn't mean your academic performance is going to suffer as a result of it, I think that's a little extreme. Also, what's wrong with 10mbit? 99.99% of the time you won't be downloading anything from the internet at anything faster then that. Chances are the only time you'd be doing something that go beyond a 10mbit speed is file sharing.
Yes, the dell wireless cards have similar problems, they use the broadcom chipset.

[bgwinkel]

But the implied message is that it is the users' problem for using bad cards and not the University for designing a system that misbehaves with a large portion of the installed base of wireless cards. Can it be that the some aspects of the current UAWIFI are the problem?
No, it's the manufacturer's problems for creating this mess in the first place. It is far beyond our power to alter what Intel, Cisco, and Microsoft do on a large scale. Any sort of RADIUS setup will have problems with Intel cards, simply due to their aggressive power management. Why doesn't Intel fix it? Because it hurts battery life, which is a prime selling point of a laptop. Microsoft turns on certain options automatically in Windows Vista that harms performance in large-scale deployments. Why? Because the majority of users are home users and those options benefit them. And Cisco, well, we'll stay out of that one.
Many residence halls have their Ethernet ports in a corner so that the wiring logistics make it cumbersome or impossible to use
In which case a longer cable can be used (it isn't impossible).
and the data rate is only at 10mpbs!
You're going to get just about the same throughput and actually, your latency will be better on the wired connection.
Chances are the only time you'd be doing something that go beyond a 10mbit speed is file sharing.
And realize that 10mbit is the LAN speed, the connection to the internet is going to be slower. Even when plugged into a 100mbit part of the UofA network, I've never hit 1.25 mbytes/s (10mbit in mbyte) from even so-called "high speed" servers on the internet. Your internet download and the servers internet upload are not going to be larger than your connection to the LAN.

[Wildman]

Yes, the problem is frustrating and well, maybe everybody won't be flunking out this semester, but 10mbps is really, really slow and 1990s technology. Shame on defending it! Besides, I personally noted a dramatic performance differences between the UAWifi when it is stable and the wired eithernet, especially for on-campus hosts. And just because students have made do with longer cables to circumvent poor infrastructure planning because it was easier to make cheaper cable pulls does not make it right.

From the previous posts it seems that not everyone with an Intel card at UofA has a problem. So what is the difference? It is probably in the WIFI infrastructure, computer configurations, local interference and perhaps some misconfigured APs. You actually hinted at some of the factors: the RADIUS setup, aggressive power management and options in Vista. So can these settings be changed and configured differently? What are the options in Vista? Can you publish these settings. Also, a lot of users having problems are not running on battery, so perhaps the powersave factor cannot be broadly applied.

I sense a high frustration level here, and it is also frustrating for today's users, accustomed to broadband access at home. The deployment effort certainly deserves praise. But if the WIFI net is only three weeks old, these problems are bound to occur and cannot be adequately tested in the lab. That can only happen in the field. But rather than blaming Intel, Microsoft, Cisco and Dell for producing crappy code and hardware, we need some constructive courses of action to improve the situation, and hopefully learn from it. If it weren't for those guys we would be all looking for new ribbons for our Olivetti or Smith-Corona typwriters and getting queezy from inhaling too much White-Out.

[picch]

Yes, the problem is frustrating and well, maybe everybody won't be flunking out this semester, but 10mbps is really, really slow and 1990s technology. Shame on defending it!


You do realize that the average cable broadband connection is 5-6mbit right? Having 100mbit, 10mbit, or gigabit in your room will make no difference because websites won't allow you to download from their servers at that speed. The only time in which 100mbit would make a difference is if you have a heavy volume of traffic that is constantly being passed through the Intranet.

[bgwinkel]

Yes, the problem is frustrating and well, maybe everybody won't be flunking out this semester, but 10mbps is really, really slow and 1990s technology.
Reread what I said please. On a 100mbps connection, I get speeds slower than 10mpbs. On the wireless, you're going to get at most 19mbps regularly, at other times, you're going to be closer to 10. You're not getting 54, trust me. That's marketing.
From the previous posts it seems that not everyone with an Intel card at UofA has a problem. So what is the difference? It is probably in the WIFI infrastructure, computer configurations, local interference and perhaps some misconfigured APs.
No. Everyone with an Intel card at UofA has the same problems. Whether they in turn make it a problem is a personal choice. Wireless drops, it's just a fact of life. Are you going to whine and complain about it, or just accept it and move on? In the end, you get to choose your own attitude.
I sense a high frustration level here, and it is also frustrating for today's users, accustomed to broadband access at home.
Unless you pay an obscene amount of money for your internet connection at home, your connection here is almost guarenteed faster.
But rather than blaming Intel, Microsoft, Cisco and Dell for producing crappy code and hardware, we need some constructive courses of action to improve the situation
Except...the only people that can change/fix it, is Intel, MS, Cisco, etc. Which is why we're working with them. We can't just 'fix it' ourselves.

[dparm]

Wireless connectivity is great and all for mobility, but for reliability and speed, stick with a cabled connection. This has always been the case, and will continue to be for quite some time.


(and for those interested, the amount of Internet bandwidth coming into this campus is many many times greater than what you can get at a business or home)

[Wildman]

Reread what I said please. On a 100mbps connection, I get speeds slower than 10mpbs. On the wireless, you're going to get at most 19mbps regularly, at other times, you're going to be closer to 10. You're not getting 54, trust me. That's marketing.

No. Everyone with an Intel card at UofA has the same problems. Whether they in turn make it a problem is a personal choice. Wireless drops, it's just a fact of life. Are you going to whine and complain about it, or just accept it and move on? In the end, you get to choose your own attitude.

Unless you pay an obscene amount of money for your internet connection at home, your connection here is almost guarenteed faster.

Except...the only people that can change/fix it, is Intel, MS, Cisco, etc. Which is why we're working with them. We can't just 'fix it' ourselves.


You might start thinking about your customer service role and how you might improve it. I entered into this posting in order to get a technical solution to my intermittent UAWIFI connectivity problem. Instead, you have repeatedly told me that the problem is not your fault - its the users for buying the wrong equipment and the manfacturers. Then you tell me even if the UAWIFI is not working, it doesn't matter anyway. No one gets the throughput promised anyway. I guess what you are trying to say is that I don't know what I am talking about.

I have asked for some constructive advice. Blaming the manufacturers is not productive. What you have not done is offer any constructive solution, nor has anyone really asked relevant diagnostic questions. You have not recommended any alternative wireless equipment, network client or recommended any change to the settings of which you have complained. You mioght be making some efforts to resolve this problem, which you say everyone is having. However, telling one of your customers that he or she has an attitude or is whining is just wrong.

Please do not bother to respond to this post. I have already wasted enough time and effort to get bogged down in personal attacks. And it benefits no one.

[dcv]

You might start thinking about your customer service role and how you might improve it. I entered into this posting in order to get a technical solution to my intermittent UAWIFI connectivity problem. Instead, you have repeatedly told me that the problem is not your fault - its the users for buying the wrong equipment and the manfacturers. Then you tell me even if the UAWIFI is not working, it doesn't matter anyway. No one gets the throughput promised anyway. I guess what you are trying to say is that I don't know what I am talking about.

I have asked for some constructive advice. Blaming the manufacturers is not productive. What you have not done is offer any constructive solution, nor has anyone really asked relevant diagnostic questions. You have not recommended any alternative wireless equipment, network client or recommended any change to the settings of which you have complained. You mioght be making some efforts to resolve this problem, which you say everyone is having. However, telling one of your customers that he or she has an attitude or is whining is just wrong.

Please do not bother to respond to this post. I have already wasted enough time and effort to get bogged down in personal attacks. And it benefits no one.

Unfortunately, if you have an Intel Pro wireless card, there isn't much you can do from your end to fix it. You can disable power saving (for windows XP - http://ccit.web.arizona.edu/index.php?id=2168 , and for Vista - http://support.microsoft.com/kb/928152 ) and see if that helps you. It would be impractical to recommend you go out and purchase other wireless equipment (though, if you'd like to, any other wifi card that supports PEAP Authentication and WPA Enterprise that can be managed by Windows's built-in wifi manager shouldn't have a problem getting on UAWifi), and we wouldn't recommend alternative networking clients (the built-in Windows client is the only one supported). If you're in the dorms and you have an intermittent connection, it really is best to go with a wired connection (10mbps really is more than enough to surf the internet and transfer files to and from servers, as in my experience 10mbps in the dorms doesn't get maxed out).

Other than that, the best thing one can do have patience - rest assured the U of A is working with all related parties to make things better (as Dan and Garrett have noted earlier in this thread, with every new release of the Intel drivers, UAWifi reliability improves). The UAWifi rollout is a huge undertaking that's been going on for about a year - it now covers some two-thirds of Campus, and at its completion (end of 2007, I believe), it will cover about 85% of campus. This is a high priority for the U of A, and much is being done to maintain and improve QOS.

Please don't think ill of OSCR because of your experience with UAWifi - we are the Office of Student Computing Resources and don't directly deal with the UAWifi rollout. We are student workers, and our role is to provide direct help to the students of the University, which we do to the best of our ability. If you'd like somebody to help you with your wireless one-on-one and see if there's anything you/we may have missed in this forum thread, you can give the OSCR Underground a call at 626-TECH and set up an appointment.

[bgwinkel]

I entered into this posting in order to get a technical solution to my intermittent UAWIFI connectivity problem. Instead, you have repeatedly told me that the problem is not your fault - its the users for buying the wrong equipment and the manfacturers.
However, this is exactly the issue. There is no technical solution. I can promise you that I'd never keep a solution from you, but I cannot give what I do not have.
I have asked for some constructive advice. Blaming the manufacturers is not productive. What you have not done is offer any constructive solution, nor has anyone really asked relevant diagnostic questions.
We've seen this over and over for over a year now. We know what we're talking about. However, let's face it, you didn't come here asking for advice. Your first question was about the hardware infrastructure and your second was about interference. Then you attacked us for blaming the manufacturers.

If you want advice, give me your Network card type, OS (incl SP), and current version of drivers installed on your computer and I would be more than happy to make sure that your computer is configured the best possible way.
You have not recommended any alternative wireless equipment, network client or recommended any change to the settings of which you have complained.
1) Keep your current wireless 'equipment'.
2) Use the Windows Zero Config. It's the best out there (in Windows, of course)
3) We've mentioned to disable the power saving. And that's all we can do in this case.
You mioght be making some efforts to resolve this problem, which you say everyone is having.
I can assure you we have done and are doing everything in our power.

[richard5]

I have asked for some constructive advice. Blaming the manufacturers is not productive. What you have not done is offer any constructive solution, nor has anyone really asked relevant diagnostic questions. You have not recommended any alternative wireless equipment, network client or recommended any change to the settings of which you have complained. You mioght be making some efforts to resolve this problem, which you say everyone is having. However, telling one of your customers that he or she has an attitude or is whining is just wrong.

In this case there is no such thing as constructive advice. People are working on UAWiFi everyday trying to make things better and we deal with it every single day. Hell, I was in the underground this sunday just to eat lunch with a working ops lead and the tech phone was ringing off the hook. I even took it upon myself to help students during my off hours. Trust me and every other person on the boards when we say that there is no settings configuration or "constructive advice" we might have overlooked that we can provide you with. You just have to sit tight and make use of what the University is providing you, which is much more than enough to keep your academic performance up.

[emurphy1]

Closing this thread.