MacBook's kernel panic shutdown

[efischle]

Hey all, I just wanted to make some of you aware of this problem, in case anyone comes into the OSCR labs with a question, or if any of you are MacBook owners yourselves. And also, if anyone has any help they can offer, that would be great.
There has been a problem developing with the new MacBooks (and MacBook Pros, I think). They've been having kernel panics and shutting down. Mine has done it 2 or 3 times since I've had it, which is about a month. But some people have had up to 9 in one day, right out of the box.
It always happens when the wireless is being used, so most people are guessing it's the airport card or the driver. Apple hasn't come out to say that there is a problem, but I found plenty of people on the web having the same problem. I think most of them have had their computers called defective and been sent a new one (hopefully not with the same problem).
I'm hoping I don't have to send mine back for a new one, so if anyone has any ideas, please do share!

[picch]

This is the first i've herd of it, although as much as I love apple products I wouldn't put it past them *cough thermal paste*. I know I personally haven't had client's come in complaining of shutdowns at random times.

So if you disable your airport card the kernal panics don't happen anymore?

[efischle]

I haven't tried disabling the wireless card, as that's my main way of accessing the internet. And I haven't heard anyone who has definetly traced it to the wireless card or driver. But there are people who say when it's plugged in to the internet, there are no kernel panics, and the second they try wireless, it does it 7 times in a row.

[cmurph]

mac's.... *shakes head*

[rprice1]

I thought everything was easier on a mac...?

[picch]

I thought everything was easier on a mac...?

Everyone is quick to start bashing apple when the "once every blue moon virus or bug" is introduced, but no one seems to care when Microsoft releases a windows update (every month) that has 10 security/bug fixes for problems that probably should have been taken care internally in the first place. :rolleyes:

I also would like to point out that Apple has released 4 major updates (soon to be 5) to Mac OS X and completely switched CPU architectures in the time it's taken Microsoft to release 2 service packs for XP and re-write and water down vista about 4 times.

Which btw Vista will not be ready to ship out to companies by October or be ready for consumer use by February.
*cough WinFS*

[dcv]

Which btw Vista will not be ready to ship out to companies by October or be ready for consumer use by February.
*cough WinFS*

I'd thought WinFS was dumped completely? Please correct me if I'm wrong - it'd be great to actually have a new feature in Vista!

With the release of RC1 last week, I think that Microsoft will actually deliver Vista on time (Q4 06 for businesses, beginning of next year for consumers). It will probably be delivered just like XP - half-finished and riddled with bugs, destined for SP1 thru 4 - but it'll probably be delivered on time :)

As for Apple - this company has as of late been doing "quiet fixes," wherein problems are fixed without such things as large recalls. It's a little smarmy to not address problems head-on, but it does help them maintain a good PR image as the company without any problems. Example - the early Macbook Pro's whine was supposedly remedied by the next OS X update, and the MBPs manufactured since then use new logic boards. I'd imagine that if this kernel panic problem is indeed reproducible in Apple's labs, they'll do what they've been doing - pretend it isn't real for as long as possible, then fix it with the next update.

Besides, statistically, though the voices echoing in the tubes of the internet make it seem that Apple's new laptop lines are riddled with problems, the actual frequency of incidences is quite low - those affected are just a VERY vocal minority. The vast majority of people I've talked to - owning everything from the rev. A MBPs sold in February to the newest of the new Black MacBooks - have had purely positive experiences and haven't experienced these seemingly phenominal, pandemic problems (heat, noise, crashes, etc).

[picch]

I'd thought WinFS was dumped completely? Please correct me if I'm wrong - it'd be great to actually have a new feature in Vista!

With the release of RC1 last week, I think that Microsoft will actually deliver Vista on time (Q4 06 for businesses, beginning of next year for consumers). It will probably be delivered just like XP - half-finished and riddled with bugs, destined for SP1 thru 4 - but it'll probably be delivered on time :)

As for Apple - this company has as of late been doing "quiet fixes," wherein problems are fixed without such things as large recalls. It's a little smarmy to not address problems head-on, but it does help them maintain a good PR image as the company without any problems. Example - the early Macbook Pro's whine was supposedly remedied by the next OS X update, and the MBPs manufactured since then use new logic boards. I'd imagine that if this kernel panic problem is indeed reproducible in Apple's labs, they'll do what they've been doing - pretend it isn't real for as long as possible, then fix it with the next update.

Besides, statistically, though the voices echoing in the tubes of the internet make it seem that Apple's new laptop lines are riddled with problems, the actual frequency of incidences is quite low - those affected are just a VERY vocal minority. The vast majority of people I've talked to - owning everything from the rev. A MBPs sold in February to the newest of the new Black MacBooks - have had purely positive experiences and haven't experienced these seemingly phenominal, pandemic problems (heat, noise, crashes, etc).

WinFS was dumped but that was the cause of most of their problems. RC1 I don't think was released last week. I believe it's Pre-RC1, (which is the version I'm running)

[rprice1]

Just a quick note on bashing vista over osx... osx only has to be compatible with a few different hardware layouts in comparison to the infinite configurations in the pc world that vista has to cover, of course osx is going to have fewer updates and/or hardware glitches

[cmurph]

Everyone is quick to start bashing apple when the "once every blue moon virus or bug" is introduced, but no one seems to care when Microsoft releases a windows update (every month) that has 10 security/bug fixes for problems that probably should have been taken care internally in the first place. :rolleyes:

I also would like to point out that Apple has released 4 major updates (soon to be 5) to Mac OS X and completely switched CPU architectures in the time it's taken Microsoft to release 2 service packs for XP and re-write and water down vista about 4 times.

Which btw Vista will not be ready to ship out to companies by October or be ready for consumer use by February.
*cough WinFS*

i really dont think speed of releases should be taken into consideration when talking about windows. look at the hundrends of other software titles that microsoft produces along with xboxs, new media players, media center, tablet edition, etc... they produce a FAR greater number of products then apple ever has or ever will.

and the bugs? like he said of course it has bugs it has to support thousands upon thousands of types and configurations of hardware. i wana see osx do that. osx has to work on what, 20 different hardware configurations? and thats being generous.

dont get me wrong i like osx but you can only compare them upon how they function, nothing else.

[dcv]

i really dont think speed of releases should be taken into consideration when talking about windows. look at the hundrends of other software titles that microsoft produces along with xboxs, new media players, media center, tablet edition, etc... they produce a FAR greater number of products then apple ever has or ever will.

After the anti-trust suit a few years ago, Microsoft has been split into a number of different entities specializing in their various product lines - there is zero overlap between the team developing the XBox, the team developing Office, and the team developing Vista (well, maybe some overlap for interactivity (read - Live), but it is far from one company pushing out a variety of products). As for Tablet Edition, MCE, Home, Professional, etc - it is all XP, but bundled with different packages. In fact, I wish that MS would just sell the Media Center portion of MCE separate so that prior owners of Home or Pro could get that functionality - it is well within their power to do so.

I'd also not try to count Microsoft's foray into the media player world for or against them - the Zune is not out on the market yet, and it had be a darn sight better than it's being built up to be in order to sway any consumers and not fail.

[nlopez]

i really dont think speed of releases should be taken into consideration when talking about windows. look at the hundrends of other software titles that microsoft produces along with xboxs, new media players, media center, tablet edition, etc... they produce a FAR greater number of products then apple ever has or ever will.
Yet they still can't duct-tape and bailing wire together anything comparable to iLife, even with at least 3 completely unrelated divisions working on things. We're talking about Windows here, not XBox which is totally unrelated except for on very high-level corporate stragegies.
Yes Microsoft does other stuff, and some of it is good even, but they havn't brought anything new to Windows since they wen't all Fischer-Price. Apple on the other hand has added several useability features, many of them really useful and the rest mostly stay out of your way.

Somewhat back toward the original topic, my MacBook Pro does get really hot when running WoW, and one of the fans is dying and grinding a bit now, but that's what AppleCare is for. Well, once I get around to backing up my data that is.

[amccabe]

This isn't the same problem, but I just read this article on powerpage:

http://www.powerpage.org/archives/2006/09/macbook_overheat_analyzed_recall_brewing.html

"MacBook Overheat Analyzed: Recall Brewing?"

"Since isolating the heatsink as the cause of the MacBook’s Rapid Sudden Shutdown (RSS), readers have isolated the specific part of the heatsink that is causing the problem, is actually the CPU thermometer itself."

This is also supposed to be the cause of macbooks not starting sometimes when the power button is pressed (which Ellen and I have both had happen).

I had a spontaneous shutdown problem when the macbook went to sleep, but I isolated it to bluetooth and have adapted so that it doesn't happen anymore.

[amccabe]

Take a look at this new Apple support page:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=304308

"MacBook: Shuts down intermittently"

If your MacBook is shutting down intermittently, please contact AppleCare for service.

[efischle]

Take a look at this new Apple support page:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=304308

"MacBook: Shuts down intermittently"

If your MacBook is shutting down intermittently, please contact AppleCare for service.


And what exactly does "shut down intermittently" mean? I'm not quite sure mine falls under that, though if it does it again I'll probably call.

[amccabe]

My MacBook was going to sleep and not waking when I first got it. It was bluetooth related I figured out, but I read on macintouch about other people having a similar problem that did not seem to be bluetooth related. But both mine and theirs were unresponsive until I held down the power button for 5 seconds, then pressed it again to restart.

And today I helped a girl with a black macbook and hers had apparently just had a black screen all of a sudden. I had to hold the power button for 5 seconds, etc.

I am guessing that this is what Apple is talking about (because they would mention "Kernel Panic" otherwise), but it could also be a catch-all since they are so vague.

[efischle]

All right guys. We get it. Some of you are loyal to windows, and some of you are loyal to macs. But does every mac osx thread have to turn into a fanboy battle? I didn't originally post this to read whether mac or windows has more bugs when it's released, I posted it to see if any of you had anything useful to tell me. Something that is actually related to my problem (kernel panics in new macs, if it got lost in the fray). If you want to bash your least favorite operating system, make your own thread. Don't use one where someone is genuinely looking for help with a problem.

Thanks to those of you who did try to address my question.

[dcv]

All right guys. We get it. Some of you are loyal to windows, and some of you are loyal to macs. But does every mac osx thread have to turn into a fanboy battle?

Yes. Yes it does. After all, this is the internet ;)

Anyhoo, sorry about the fact that, over the course of 17 comments, Andrew was the only person with any information relevant to your situation.

[trees]

Well, actually, as a matter of fact, the answer is No.
No, it doesn't.
Ellen is quite correct. A request for help is nothing more than that and deserves the respect of reasonable attempts at helping.WWFD?
If instead, you want to argue silliness, please take it somewhere where they like that sort of thing, like slashdot.

[dparm]

On a semi-related note, you can change the kernel panic appearance (http://osxbook.com/book/bonus/chapter5/panic/)!

[d3ntaku]

hi all -

sorry to bring this back to the original topic, but i am having exactly this same problem i believe.

Library/Logs/panic.log

gives me the following info regarding airport crash.

i brought it back to the apple store once, they ran the usual basic tests ("Airport card No Problem!!") reinstalled OSx and got it back. crashes within 30 secs of opening the lid.

so, has apple fessed up to this yet? if i go back to the store are they going to give me endless BS about this? or is there some official doc i can point to and say "replace this!"

tx,

/dc

*********

Fri Sep 22 12:48:31 2006
panic(cpu 0 caller 0x0019C9EF): Unresolved kernel trap (CPU 0, Type 14=page fault), registers:
CR0: 0x8001003b, CR2: 0x8904eb39, CR3: 0x0163d000, CR4: 0x000006e0
EAX: 0x8904eb38, EBX: 0x00000010, ECX: 0x252a3c8c, EDX: 0x00000010
ESP: 0x8904eb39, EBP: 0x252a3ad4, ESI: 0x06365204, EDI: 0x0636527c
EFL: 0x00010282, EIP: 0x4235f23d, CS: 0x00000008, DS: 0x252a0010

Backtrace, Format - Frame : Return Address (4 potential args on stack)
0x252a3954 : 0x128b5e (0x3bbf84 0x252a3978 0x131bbc 0x0)
0x252a3994 : 0x19c9ef (0x3c13b4 0x0 0xe 0x3c116c)
0x252a3a44 : 0x197b8d (0x252a3a58 0x252a3ad4 0x4235f23d 0x48)
0x252a3a50 : 0x4235f23d (0x48 0x10 0x37190010 0x252a0010)
0x252a3ad4 : 0x4235d303 (0x636527c 0x3719784b 0x8 0x42352701)
0x252a3b24 : 0x42352cb9 (0x4185804 0x252a3c8c 0x37197800 0x50)
0x252a3b84 : 0x42363794 (0x3f4946c 0x252a3c8c 0x37197800 0x50)
0x252a3ce4 : 0x42373bd4 (0x3f4946c 0x37266300 0x3fe3404 0x50)
0x252a3d34 : 0x423649a0 (0x3f4946c 0x37266300 0x3fe3404 0x50)
0x252a3e24 : 0x42374865 (0x3f4946c 0x37266300 0x3fe3404 0xe)
0x252a3f14 : 0x38d939 (0x3f4929c 0x3ef0f80 0x1 0x472d6a8)
0x252a3f64 : 0x38cae5 (0x3ef0f80 0x135d18 0x0 0x472d6a8)
0x252a3f94 : 0x38c809 (0x45fdc80 0x0 0x252a3fd4 0x1f7784)
0x252a3fd4 : 0x197a29 (0x45fdc80 0x0 0x472d920 0x10) Backtrace terminated-invalid frame pointer 0x0
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.driver.AirPortAtheros5424(103.5)@0x42351 000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONetworkingFamily(1.5.0)@0x3b4ad0 00
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(2.0)@0x35449000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IO80211Family(112.1)@0x42338000

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.6.2: Thu Apr 13 18:48:29 PDT 2006; root:xnu-792.9.59.obj~1/RELEASE_I386

[amccabe]

Check out this site for lots of useful info:

http://macbookrandomshutdown.com/


and here is Apple's official response:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=304308


and finally, Garrett posted this in another thread:

"MacBook shut-off addresed

A vocal minority of MacBook owners experiencing intermittent shut down issues with their systems for the last two months will be pleased to hear that Apple is acknowledging and addressing the issue.

Apple recently notified service providers that customers who report experiencing the random shut-down problem should submit their systems for evaluation and that Apple will replace the faulty parts in systems deemed affected by the flaw. Parts affected by the issue are said to include the logic board and heatsink.

Affected MacBooks span the serial number range 4H617-4H635. Apple expects repairs on affected MacBooks to begin early next week."

[efischle]

Apple has confessed to the problem of the MacBooks randomly shutting-down due to the heatsink problem, but as far as I know they have said nothing about the kernel panics.

I looked it up on google and found there were tons of other MacBook owners who were having the exact same problem with kernel panics. They're word of advice (and mine) - don't go to the genius bar!! They have no idea about what's going on or how to fix it. I took mine in after it did it three times. They reset the disk permissions (which I had done after the first time it panicked) and booted it from their hard drive and found no problems. They gave me some bs about getting rid of a program that makes my dock clear, saying that could fix the problem.

Call AppleCare the next time it happens. They'll probably make you go through some steps to try to make it better, and if what they tell you to do doesn't work, they should have you send it back to have something replaced. Although if it's under 3 weeks old, they will just give you a new one.

I personally am wating to see if my computer does it again before giving Apple a call. It hasn't done it for a while, so I'm just waiting and watching.

Oh, and my computer falls in that serial number range for the heatsink problem, but I have never had that happen.

[Baloe]

Hi,

I had and still have these kernel panic issues. I bought a macbook core 2 duo last December. After a month, the kernel panics started, with no apparent reasons. I had it like maybe 5 times a day. If I recollect well, all panic.log files were similar to the one sent above, with the mention airport. Anyway, after a week or two, I called Apple Care. They helped in doing all these trashy tests and saying that it might be dangerous for my mac etc. Anyway, it didn't help, and they surely didn't know what the possible problem could have been. So I reinstalled once again mac osx and I then even had a kernel panic during the installation process. I brought it in in a shop which takes also care for repairs. They had it for 2 or 3 weeks and said that they did the tests but couldn't find any reasons, but due to the description of the owner (so me), they decided to exchange the main board, and so they gave it back and wished me a lot of fun with my new mac (that was about end of February). Since half March, I bought a mighty mouse bluetooth, and since then, again kernel panics. In the panic.log it now always states bluetooth, so I expect it is the fault of my mighty mouse. I will have to call again apple care although it's after my 3 months of full service. And of course, very very dissapointed in the whole crappy way they're handling it. Especially when you read about people with kernel panics sending in their mac for repair and getting another mac back, or to read that they will spend their precious time on a phone while they're not able to acknowledge the real issues like providing a good working computer, which should be their trademark. I was like OK for them to take their time for Leopard to be released because I thought they wanted to solve all the current problems, but now it's only because they want to get iphone ready. So what should I expect? Pay a numerous amount of money without expecting any changes? And they will have to come up with some real changes, cause except for time machine, all the rest is not really convincing me. Then they can better keep Tiger, but without the kernel panics of course.

[picch]

You're the 1st one that has mentioned kernel panics since last semester. Without having the chance to look into the problem yet, I'd like to ask the obvious/stupid question:

Do you have the latest firmware? If I recall, that was what fixed the last round of kernel panics

[efischle]

I've had some fairly recent problems, including one or two kernel panics, this semester. And I've made sure to have all the latest updates. The last couple firmware updates fixed things like my low volume, but the kernel panics continue. Apple obviously has no idea what's going on.

[bgwinkel]

Z. seems to have kernel panics whenever I'm around. Maybe the mac is scared of me? :P

[picch]

It doesn't like Microsoft Koolaid!

[dcv]

You know, these kernel panics look a lot like the kernel panics my iBook started having a few months ago - it couldn't stay on for more than five minutes without a panic. Looking at the panic.log, it was clear that the Airport card was at fault. To test the theory, I simply turned off the Airport card - and voila, no more kernel panics.

Unfortunately, this means having no Airport card, and my warranty was out, so I couldn't get a replacement for free (now, I buy AppleCare on everything).

So yeah, if you're kernal panicking a few times a day and the panic.log is showing com.apple.iokit.AppleAirport* in the trace, try turning off Airport and see if you still get the panics.

If that fixes the problem, and you're still under warranty, try going to the Apple "Geniuses" and say "Look, I know you SAY the Airport card is fine, but when I turn it off, it runs just fine. Screw your useless tests - just please replace my Airport card."

If that fixes the problem, and you're out of warranty, you could do what I do - keep Airport off and buy a third-party USB wireless dongle.

If that doesn't fix the problem, then... I have no idea.

[Unregistered]

Hello,

I was having the same exact issue and have corrected the issue. By the way, the mac store un-"genius" found nothing wrong, of course. Anyways, back to how I solved the issue. I ended up recompiling the current source of the Darwin xnu kernel. After installing the kernel and rebooting I have not had a panic since! It has only been a few days, but so far so good. You can find the relevant information at http://developer.apple.com/opensource/index.html

[Baloe]

You're the 1st one that has mentioned kernel panics since last semester. Without having the chance to look into the problem yet, I'd like to ask the obvious/stupid question:

Do you have the latest firmware? If I recall, that was what fixed the last round of kernel panics

It's been some time I've been checking out the website... but yes, I was always having the latest versions of everything and don't worry, the panics stayed and I got new problems, so life with mac is great. Now my macbook is hanging 1 times over 3 during a restart and I need the power button in that case. And in the same amount of cases, when I close the lid of my mac, it should go to sleep but it apparently doesn't and then the batteries leaks till it's completely flat. Meanwhile it's heating up like it's almost on fire, and in the other cases, I might not be able to get out of sleep, and it's also the power button to save me....